tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post8821224789729886052..comments2023-06-01T09:22:18.917+01:00Comments on Liturgiae Causa: Thomas Cranmer...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-7653761410704668472012-03-25T16:41:53.889+01:002012-03-25T16:41:53.889+01:00"... how much ''patrimony'' i..."<i>... how much ''patrimony'' is acceptable to Rome ...?</i>"<br />Not much.<br />"<i>Andrewes' contributions to the Authorised Version of the Bible show him to be quite as influential to the Anglican patrimony ...</i>"<br />And guess what, the AV is not allowed in the Ordinariate.Little Black Sambohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16699227938165106710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-8315345520364856932012-03-22T21:20:46.477+00:002012-03-22T21:20:46.477+00:00Rome is cool with paraphrasing something that migh...Rome is cool with paraphrasing something that might have been an anaphora composed by the antipope Hippolytus and calling it Eucharistic Prayer II, so rehabilitating Cranmer is not impossible (see also that God-awful "folk" Litany of the Saints which lists Origen--condemed at an Ecumenical Council). Of course, the real problem here is that the use of Cranmerian liturgy seems good only in comparison to the depths to which the Roman Missal has fallen.<br /><br />More constructively though, I think that Lancelot Andrewes rather than Cranmer might be the way to go if the Ordinariate wants to commemorate figures of the English Reformation. Andrewes' contributions to the Authorised Version of the Bible show him to be quite as influential to the Anglican patrimony as Cranmer, and Andrewes' Private Devotions certainly show him to be more Catholic.Hanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11449078230379488480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-19602838141982671522012-03-22T10:11:38.613+00:002012-03-22T10:11:38.613+00:00I wonder if an inability to translate well is a fi...I wonder if an inability to translate well is a fifth mark of the Universal Church? See: "omnipotentem" for "pantokratora", etc..https://www.blogger.com/profile/04611694996611765479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-19319192656497633622012-03-22T00:48:35.961+00:002012-03-22T00:48:35.961+00:00[I console myself in the certain knowledge that I ...[I console myself in the certain knowledge that I could never be accused of being a "fanatical Papist" nor an "Anglican Evangelical"] Ah... "Cranmer = Anglican Patrimony"? I wondered what it was...Canon Jerome Lloyd OSJVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764146635659770019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-35986333556051699482012-03-21T23:32:08.730+00:002012-03-21T23:32:08.730+00:00Well, well, my readers do come from the length and...Well, well, my readers do come from the length and breadth of Christendom! From fanatical Papist to Evangelical Anglican!<br /><br />Perhaps my intention in publishing this post has been misunderstood. Whether or not Thomas Cranmer was a heretic is irrelevant. He forms a significant part of the Anglican Patrimony, which Rome has claimed to admire (like her own tradition!) and promises to safeguard in the formation of the Personal Ordinariates. Would Anglo-Catholics destined for the Ordinariate be expected to anathematize Thomas Cranmer because Rome considers him a heretic? Why stop with him? Why not repudiate all his works? If this is the case, how much ''patrimony'' is acceptable to Rome, with all her false dogma?<br /><br />Liam, well quite. The Prayer Book services are far more catholic than the 1962 services.<br /><br />Alex, is this a joke?<br /><br />Rubricarius, ha ha ha! I was going to add why not name Cranmer as patron of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, but I daresay neither he nor the Romanizing Anglicans would consider that appropriate.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-78447388317213787292012-03-21T23:17:38.649+00:002012-03-21T23:17:38.649+00:00Perhaps the Vox Clara people should have adopted A...Perhaps the Vox Clara people should have adopted Abp. Cranmer as patron for their translation effort. If they had perhaps the finished product might have some semblance to English?Rubricariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05050302650867319277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-82017840776702982632012-03-21T22:33:22.453+00:002012-03-21T22:33:22.453+00:00Here is your proper epistle for the feast of the C...Here is your proper epistle for the feast of the Combustion of Thomas Cranmer, heretic.<br /><br />Lectio libri Judicum.<br />But when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised them up a deliverer, Ehud the son of Gera, a Benjamite, a man lefthanded: and by him the children of Israel sent a present unto Eglon the king of Moab. But Ehud made him a dagger which had two edges, of a cubit length; and he did gird it under his raiment upon his right thigh. And he brought the present unto Eglon king of Moab: and Eglon [was] a very fat man. And when he had made an end to offer the present, he sent away the people that bare the present. But he himself turned again from the quarries that [were] by Gilgal, and said, I have a secret errand unto thee, O king: who said, Keep silence. And all that stood by him went out from him. And Ehud came unto him; and he was sitting in a summer parlour, which he had for himself alone. And Ehud said, I have a message from God unto thee. And he arose out of [his] seat. And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out. R. Deo gratias.Alex Ferrarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967379435284682150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-64215946502775693532012-03-21T21:54:50.340+00:002012-03-21T21:54:50.340+00:00Granted, Cranmer rendered into the vulgar tongue b...Granted, Cranmer rendered into the vulgar tongue broadly accurate and certainly eloquent translations of the Catholic liturgy anciently derived from Rome than has ever been accomplished by her. But he was a heretic.Canon Jerome Lloyd OSJVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764146635659770019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-65515348460771313292012-03-21T21:28:31.144+00:002012-03-21T21:28:31.144+00:00(a) Cranmer was no Zwinglian.
(b) The Romish view...(a) Cranmer was no Zwinglian.<br /><br />(b) The Romish view of Cranmer demonstrates just what they think of so-called 'Anglican Patrimony': they hate it.<br /><br />(c) The Book of Common Prayer contains finer liturgies of a nobler character and more catholic sentiment than anything that comes out of Rome.Liam Beadlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08042044098055326555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-86857455141316747482012-03-21T14:49:20.705+00:002012-03-21T14:49:20.705+00:00Patrick,
for God's sake! Cranmer was a thoroug...Patrick,<br />for God's sake! Cranmer was a thorough heretic. His most lasting - and devastating - achievement was to turn England calvinist, and forever. Cranmer was the cause of the devastation of catholicism in England, and the remtoe cause of puritanism and the Civil War. He was the forerunner of the godless murderer Oliver Cromwell, hated till this very day in the North of England, where my mother comes from. Cranmer in some of his writings admits, that he seeks the eventual scrapping of not only the Mass but of all sacraments and services. HIs ideal is a didactical service centred around preaching. His views became ever more radical and more calvinsitic, even zwinglian. Please do not mock us by proclaiming him a Saint! Oremus pro invicem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com