tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post8342044757131275027..comments2023-06-01T09:22:18.917+01:00Comments on Liturgiae Causa: Principles of Translation...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-45961131768635421732011-01-18T19:47:14.753+00:002011-01-18T19:47:14.753+00:00Patrick, the answer to your perplexity is elementa...Patrick, the answer to your perplexity is elementary: it is much easier to destroy, than to build, a thing of beauty and worth. Hence the difficult and slow upclimbing. Good will lacks as well, to be sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-63948064758492953662011-01-18T18:51:04.915+00:002011-01-18T18:51:04.915+00:00Richard C,
The fatuous "Fr. Corapi question&...Richard C,<br /><br />The fatuous "Fr. Corapi question", is beneath adult attention. As most serious people are aware, in the past sixty years Popes have delivered all sorts of pronouncements and prognostications relating to liturgical reform which subsequent events have demonstrated repeatedly to have been ill-founded and mistaken. That the critics, bullied and derided in their time in similarly asinine terms, have turned out nevertheless to "know better than the Pope" more often than not is a matter of historical record, simply. Please drop this idiotic and disreputable device. The Church is not a kind of "supernatural" North Korea.Anagnostishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03706938507885553293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-46757883857925849212011-01-18T18:26:51.393+00:002011-01-18T18:26:51.393+00:00Neither you nor I are in charge of translations. W...Neither you nor I are in charge of translations. We can make our objections known, but at some point we have to just get on with the life of Christian discipleship, for our own mental and spiritual health. Our current states in the Church do not afford us the opportunity to do much more than work to assist our pastors in celebrating a liturgy more reverent and fitting for God wherever we are. It is good that you are doing this with your service to Blackfen; you've earn the right to complain a bit. :)<br /><br /> Now, if God calls one of us to the priesthood, we could really make things happen with the restoration of the liturgy.<br /><br />The new translations are not perfect, but they are definitely better than what we currently have, both in accuracy and in elegance. They are better than we could have expected 10 or 20 years ago---even now they are being instituted over the vigorous protests of many people, among them a good number of bishops. These people seem to think that the new translations are too HAAAAARRRRD for people to understand. Simply by being a literal translation of the Latin, they are not in a colloquial everyday language. For that we can be thankful.<br /><br />Could they be better? Of course. But consider where the Roman Church was 20 years ago. Restoration may not come as fast as we like, but that is the way of things. It is much easier to destroy than to build back up.<br /><br />And, as Father Zed likes to say, if you don't like the translation, there is always Latin!Geraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02204199533749851084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-4021447668512012002011-01-18T13:24:42.988+00:002011-01-18T13:24:42.988+00:00Thank you all for your comments.
James C, are you...Thank you all for your comments.<br /><br />James C, are you saying that the ends justify the means? Beauty should be the primary ''means'' of Liturgy so that it can properly perform its function. We must remember that Liturgy is conduct of the highest order.<br /><br />Clearly the Roman Church has fallen low. I just cannot understand why the upclimbing (if it can be so called, I doubt it's even that to be quite honest) is so difficult, and slow.Patrick Sheridanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07995907911415177074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-21417403268520348452011-01-18T13:20:42.057+00:002011-01-18T13:20:42.057+00:00We live in a brutally ugly, iconoclastic era. Look...We live in a brutally ugly, iconoclastic era. Look at our modern architecture and music.<br /><br />Unfortunately, in this milieu, beauty and elegance are not possible. Perhaps in a future generation, when appreciation for beauty returns, we will get a better English translation.<br /><br />But today, with a choice between a stuffy but accurate translation and a banal and inaccurate one, I'll take the former.Geraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02204199533749851084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-28295577343827371012011-01-18T12:00:02.804+00:002011-01-18T12:00:02.804+00:00I'm glad to hear that somebody else shares my ...I'm glad to hear that somebody else shares my utter lack of enthusiasm for the new translation. The desire for a strictly 'accurate' translation means that there is none of the poetry and style which is utterly inherent in the original (and in all good liturgical compositions).<br /><br />The triumph of leaden legalism will do little to help the sacred liturgy.The Moderate Jacobitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02643594581501536867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-81011410018793748142011-01-18T02:45:17.349+00:002011-01-18T02:45:17.349+00:00The old ICEL translation was a betrayal in more wa...The old ICEL translation was a betrayal in more ways than one. That unhappy, hideous English translation, like many, if not most, of the official post-conciliar vernacular translations, was intentionally produced in order to secularise, protestantise, decatholicise, desacralise, deadjectivise, despiritualise, and dummify the Catholic religion, which is lived, celebrated, experienced and handed down foreall in the holy Liturgy. Bugnini conforted his heretical friends in the Consilium, that what they could not obtain from the Pope in the new Latin text, they would be sure to get their own way in the vernacular translations. In my opinion, anything at all, even the imperfect new english translation, will be a much long-awaited improvement. But the core problem reamins the original Novus Ordo texts: they need to be scrapped, if they cannot be ''re-catholicised''. The pre-conciliar translations made for the people's missals were usually of high quality, orthodox, and in sacral language. I see that on several important points the new English translation (the first of many vernacular re-translations) does return to make use of those pre-conciliar peoples-missal translations.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-68559130191951696212011-01-18T00:02:15.103+00:002011-01-18T00:02:15.103+00:00It's quite likely that Patricius very well may...It's quite likely that Patricius very well may. At the end of the day, while I think Benedict is a brilliant theologian, he is only a human being. (Keep mind that I'm Orthodox, so I don't think he's infallible under any circumstances)<br /><br />Imagine if I disagreed with a university professor about something, and I was told, "Are you telling me you know better than Dr. X?" Well if I can articulately and cogently put together why I think Dr. X is wrong, then I have a right to my opinion.Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733701423796765994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-72871567312263033252011-01-17T22:21:35.864+00:002011-01-17T22:21:35.864+00:00Would I have preferred an Elizabethan-style transl...Would I have preferred an Elizabethan-style translation? Yes. But I can't make the perfect the enemy of the good.<br /><br />There is no possible defense of the current ICEL translation. It is inaccurate. It is a banal paraphrase, not a translation. It is dreadful (and, in the USA, we are further hampered at Mass by the lectionary from the wretched New American Bible).<br /><br />At least the new translation will convey the meaning of the Latin text better. English ain't Latin, and if you want to get the cadence of Latin, it is a simple matter of just using Latin. <br /><br />Or joining the new Ordinariate.Geraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02204199533749851084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8192580971664762668.post-71966161249015868622011-01-17T17:24:35.106+00:002011-01-17T17:24:35.106+00:00A good and interesting post but your comment regar...A good and interesting post but your comment regarding Pope Benedict does prompt the Fr Corapi question:<br />"Are you telling me you know better than the Pope?"Richard Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10826907710570316952noreply@blogger.com