Knox wrote this tract in 1558, nine years before Mary Stuart abdicated. She was not "banished" from Scotland. She fled from Loch Leven castle (after miscarrying twins), disguised as a priest, in an attempt to convince Queen Elizabeth to get her throne back after having lost the support of the confederate lords due, in part, to her disastrous marriage to the Eorl of Bothwell (who was responsible for the murder of Lord Darnley). Knox, to my knowledge, played very little part in that even if he did preach against her, and the rule of women in general.
Don't be contrary. You already admitted he was a bad example.
The fact that this was published earlier merely bears out my point. Mary arrived back in Scotland to a public which already scorned her, as a result of his efforts. Maybe not banished, but she was effectively deposed by her own nobles.
I do know my own nation's history, so kindly forgive me using a metaphorical gloss!
Call me whatever you like but I have yet to meet a woman who knows the first thing about Liturgy...
In general I agree. Though I will give a polite nod to female monastics and the often female directors of church choirs. Of course I am referring to Orthodox here. My admittedly limited experience with Roman Catholic parish choirs is too painful to contemplate at length.
There are many great heroines of the Church. St Hilda of Whitby is of note and in RC circles one could add the late Sr Mary Berry as a recent example, being an authority on plainsong. But we are beset us round nowadays by so many lay women who consider themselves integral parts of what ought to be a male-only province, namely discourse of historical theology, liturgy, ecumenism, etc.
I am reminded of something my old sacristan told me. An awful woman on crutches went to a place of local pilgrimage some years ago and rather than keeping herself to the company of the lay people she was seen to hobble over into a throng of priests as though she were one of them. Monstrous!
Patricius, A mutual friend of our who is currently studying in the USA at St. Vladamir's Theological Seminary reports that there a number of liturgical women studying there and they are as knowledgeable as the men folk.. I have only met one thoroughly liturgical lady and she is now in her eighties and is an authority on matters Dominican. A generation or so ago there were some liturgical ladies I would liked to have met: Miss Pond, Miss Restieaux (sp?) and Miss Reynold. The latter typed the early editions of the Ordo.
I read Catherine Pickstock's After Writing. I think she's an Anglican, and for all I know she could be one of those pretending to be a priest, but I did like her take on how textualization and spatialization helped ruin liturgy. I didn't care much for her taking Derrida seriously enough to spend a good portion of time shooting down his arguments though. I suppose this is the sort of thing one must do in academic circles. Oh, my Mom is a 'theologian.' She got a Master's degree a few years ago. About the time I realized what the word theologian should really mean.
John Knox was a seditious traitor who rose up against his Church and Monarch and fomented rebellion!
ReplyDeleteNot a good example to illustrate your point. :(
Well, the publication of this tract was in very poor timing as he fell right out of favour with Queen Elizabeth. Serves him right, really.
ReplyDeleteGood(!). He'd already managed to get Mary Queen of Scots banished from her own realm.
ReplyDeleteKnox wrote this tract in 1558, nine years before Mary Stuart abdicated. She was not "banished" from Scotland. She fled from Loch Leven castle (after miscarrying twins), disguised as a priest, in an attempt to convince Queen Elizabeth to get her throne back after having lost the support of the confederate lords due, in part, to her disastrous marriage to the Eorl of Bothwell (who was responsible for the murder of Lord Darnley). Knox, to my knowledge, played very little part in that even if he did preach against her, and the rule of women in general.
DeleteDon't be contrary. You already admitted he was a bad example.
DeleteThe fact that this was published earlier merely bears out my point. Mary arrived back in Scotland to a public which already scorned her, as a result of his efforts. Maybe not banished, but she was effectively deposed by her own nobles.
I do know my own nation's history, so kindly forgive me using a metaphorical gloss!
Call me whatever you like but I have yet to meet a woman who knows the first thing about Liturgy...
ReplyDeleteIn general I agree. Though I will give a polite nod to female monastics and the often female directors of church choirs. Of course I am referring to Orthodox here. My admittedly limited experience with Roman Catholic parish choirs is too painful to contemplate at length.
There are many great heroines of the Church. St Hilda of Whitby is of note and in RC circles one could add the late Sr Mary Berry as a recent example, being an authority on plainsong. But we are beset us round nowadays by so many lay women who consider themselves integral parts of what ought to be a male-only province, namely discourse of historical theology, liturgy, ecumenism, etc.
DeleteI am reminded of something my old sacristan told me. An awful woman on crutches went to a place of local pilgrimage some years ago and rather than keeping herself to the company of the lay people she was seen to hobble over into a throng of priests as though she were one of them. Monstrous!
Patricius,
ReplyDeleteA mutual friend of our who is currently studying in the USA at St. Vladamir's Theological Seminary reports that there a number of liturgical women studying there and they are as knowledgeable as the men folk.. I have only met one thoroughly liturgical lady and she is now in her eighties and is an authority on matters Dominican. A generation or so ago there were some liturgical ladies I would liked to have met: Miss Pond, Miss Restieaux (sp?) and Miss Reynold. The latter typed the early editions of the Ordo.
I read Catherine Pickstock's After Writing. I think she's an Anglican, and for all I know she could be one of those pretending to be a priest, but I did like her take on how textualization and spatialization helped ruin liturgy. I didn't care much for her taking Derrida seriously enough to spend a good portion of time shooting down his arguments though. I suppose this is the sort of thing one must do in academic circles.
ReplyDeleteOh, my Mom is a 'theologian.' She got a Master's degree a few years ago. About the time I realized what the word theologian should really mean.